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What is the size of the radial electric field in the sun? Date: 1998/11/21   I had this idea for a source of the magnetic field of the sun but I'm stuck at one point, maybe you can get me unstuck?   Consider the conditions at a point in the sun about a 1/10 of the way from the center. Consider all forces on the ionized matter at this point. There is a large radial flux of electromagnetic energy at this point (I'm assuming there is, if not just move a little further out) I suspect that because the electrons are so much lighter than the positively charged protons, helium nuclei, and other positively charged nuclear matter, the averaged force from all electromagnetic radiation on the electrons will be bigger and in a radial direction than that the similar averaged force on the positively charged ions and this will cause a polarization of the charged matter in the sun? Am I right, should there be a radial force on the charged matter from the flux of electromagnetic radiation? Is that force greater on the electrons?   If this is true then you will have a radial electric field in the sun and given that the sun rotates this field will give rise to a magnetic field.   Re: What is the size of the radial electric field in the sun? Date: 1998/12/07   In article <735dih$29fm@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> ale2@NOSPAMpsu.edu (ale2) (that's me) writes:   > I had this idea for a source of the magnetic field of the sun > but I'm stuck at one point, maybe you can get me unstuck? > > Consider the conditions at a point in the sun about a 1/10 of > the way from the center. Consider all forces on the ionized > matter at this point. There is a large radial flux of > electromagnetic energy at this point (I'm assuming there is, if > not just move a little further out) I suspect that because the > electrons are so much lighter than the positively charged > protons, helium nuclei, and other positively charged nuclear > matter, the averaged force from all electromagnetic radiation on > the electrons will be bigger and in a radial direction than that > the similar averaged force on the positively charged ions and > this will cause a polarization of the charged matter in the sun? > Am I right, should there be a radial force on the charged matter > from the flux of electromagnetic radiation? Is that force > greater on the electrons? > > If this is true then you will have a radial electric field in > the sun and given that the sun rotates this field will give rise > to a magnetic field.   In article <singtech-2311982329570001@ip101.slm1.pacifier.com> singtech@telestream.com (C. Cagle) writes:   > In article <735dih$29fm@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, ale2@NOSPAMpsu.edu (ale2) wrote: > > > I had this idea for a source of the magnetic field of the sun > > but I'm stuck at one point, maybe you can get me unstuck? > > How unstuck do you want to become? :-). I couldn't resist the obvious > repartee just waiting in the wings to come out. :-). > > On the serious side, if you are interested in the nature and dynamics of > magnetic field of the sun then you ought to consider the implications of > the fact that the sun does not stop rotating but the dipole field actually > goes to zero during solar maximum prior to its reversal. So, even if you > are suggesting a 'buoyancy induced' radial electric field you still must > account for the disappearance and reversal of the dipole which is > accomplished approximately every eleven (11) years.   Maybe we can do that below?   > Also you should be > aware that the solar wind has a very significant latitude dependent > gradient and that different latitudes of the sun rotate at different > angular velocities.   Your post spurred me on to learn a little more about the sun. The best overall reference ( though it covered nothing about the magnetic field dynamo of the sun) turned out to be the smallest physically in size:   "The Physics of Stellar Interiors, An Introduction" by V.C. Reddish   all 107 pages a must for anyone who wants a concise intro to the physics of stars.   For information about the sun and the sun's dynamo see:   "The Stellar Dynamo" by Elizabeth Nesme-Ribes and friends in Scientific American, Nov. 96. or,   "The Sun, An Introduction" by Michael Stix or   "Sun, Earth, and Sky" by Kenneth R. Lang or   "Horizons, Exploring the Universe" by Michael A. Seeds.   Suppose that there is a small radial electric field in the sun (it seems to me that there should be one, only the sign and magnitude of the field are in question) that ends for the most parts at the bottom of the sun's convective zone. Further suppose the the region of the sun responsible for this weak electric field rotates uniformly. Consider how the electric field transforms in the outer convective regions which rotate at a different angular rates. For any region moving with a greater (or lessor angular) velocity the electric field will transform to a magnetic field (magnetic field in the opposite direction). As this region is highly conductive this field will be confined for the most part to only the lower regions of the convective zone, in effect the highly conductive plasma "short circuits" the field greatly modifying the dipole pattern.   The dynamo theory of the sun states that if there is some small existing magnetic field along with convective motions and differential rotation the conditions then exist for the sun to use this "seed" magnetic field to produce much stronger fields even though there is a constant dissipation of this generated magnetic field (much in the way that an automotive alternator can produce large currents in the stator starting with only the residual magnetic field in the rotor). If the rotational frequency of the lower reaches of the convective zone speed up and slow down (in some cyclical way) relative to the inner radiative zone the sense of the "induced" weak magnetic field will also oscillate and this might give rise to the cyclical nature of the sun's magnetic field?   I though about how this process might work in more massive stars but ran into more problems. In larger stars energy transport in the central regions is such that energy transport by radiation is not fast enough to maintain steady state temperatures and so convection also "moves" heat. This makes the calculation of the induced electric field in that region somewhat more complicated.   But let us suppose that in large stars there is a radial electric field in the central regions. Consider what happens to this field when the star goes supernova and the inner most region collapses while conserving angular momentum. The result is a large and rapidly rotating electric field (in the central region) that to observers at rest relative to exploding star see as a larger radial electric field and a dipole like magnetic field (but highly modified in the outer regions by the plasma)?   Thanks for any thoughts!   Re: Requesting a Gift Idea. Date: 1998/12/07   In article <74c8ak$vlo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> harryking@my-dejanews.com writes: > > > Does anyone have a good idea for a holiday gift > for someone interested in the sciences?   I assume the company Edmund Scientific (located in NJ) should have web page. A search should bring up their toll free number, get a catalog.   Edmund Scientific, Catalog Request Form All kinds of neat gift ideas.   Semi-periodic blink rate of Christmas lights? Date: 1998/12/10 I have noticed that most of our Christmas lights that have a special blinker bulb blink semi-periodically (the variability can be quite noticeable). I'm trying to come up with a hand waving argument why this is so. The following are a couple of clues that might help in coming up with a good argument. 1. The bimetallic metal strip in the special bulb makes contact with a wire post and the pair forms the switch which opens when the bimetallic strip is heated and curves away from the wire post.   2 The bimetallic strip is heated on the side opposite the wire post by the light filament and so when the light is on the filament at first heats the side of the bimetallic switch which causes it to first curve more towards the wire post but then as the heat flows to the other side of the bimetallic strip it curves away from the wire post and the circuit opens, the light goes out and no longer heats the bimetallic strip which cools and curves back towards the wire post and again contacts the wire post and the whole process repeats.   3. On most of the special blinker bulbs you can hear the bimetallic strip ring (like a tiny bell rings) when the switch opens and I can only guess that the bimetallic strip "sticks" to the wire post and when the forces in the heated bimetallic become great enough there is a sudden release of the bimetallic strip from the wire post which causes the bimetallic strip (or the wire post) to vibrate and is heard as a small ringing sound.   4. The resistance of the bimetallic strip, wire post combination, is probably a little different each time the they contact each other and may be a factor in the semi-periodic blink rate.   Thanks for any thoughts on the matter or any references to the study of this important subject %^)   Re: Semi-periodic blink rate of Christmas lights? Date: 1998/12/12   In article <74o1jb$2afe@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> ale2@NOSPAMpsu.edu (ale2) writes:   > I have noticed that most of our Christmas lights that have a > special blinker bulb blink semi-periodically (the variability can > be quite noticeable). I'm trying to come up with a hand waving > argument why this is so. The following are a couple of clues > that might help in coming up with a good argument.   I left out an important clue.   One must carefully consider the temperature distribution in the bimetallic strip. It is the temperature distribution along the strip that determines how much the strip curves away from the wire post contact. I suspect (will have to think about this more) that the curvature of the bimetallic strip at a point is proportional to:   (temperature at point in question - the temperature at which the curvature goes to zero) + higher order effects   One has to consider that curvature of the strip near where it is mounted contributes much more to the displacement of the strip from the contact point then curvature of the strip near the contact point. This system might make an interesting computational simulation?   The bimetallic strip in question measures about .17x.85x9mm. One side is shinny and magnetic the other side has a gold color and might be brass.